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May 16, 1998
Cassandra at the Keyboard
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The Q&A
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Dolly, the first cloned mammal, caused a heated verbal and legal reaction across the world. Legislative bodies called cloning illegal, moral and religious leaders called it a sin and infertility clinics began the mad dash to see who could offer it first.
This brouhaha is a little puzzling to many SF fans, particularly since most of the objections sound a lot like pulp SF plots.
Even more puzzling is the lack of generalization of this new technophobia. Medih continues. Robotics and AI research goes on. The race for a piece of space is heating up in Europe, Japan and some smaller countries.
Though we've all read wonderful storys about the benefits of space-flight and technologicial exploration, has there ever been a positive clone story?
The questions we're posing our panel of Editors and Authors are:
- Does Science Fiction have more of a role in our society that we would normally ascribe to it.
- Do some of the more florid stories actually managed to filter out into the mass mythology or do they, rather, reflect current attitudes.
- May SF actually indirectly affect the direction technology takes?
- Could SF be considered a kind of social precognition ... or a form of propaganda?
RedCyberC Gentlemen, go ahead with your introductions, please... thanks, Barry.
BarryHunter Barry Hunter, editor of the fanzine Baryon, published now for over 21 years
Keith Ferrell Former Editor-In-Chief OMNI (6 yrs), novelist: PASSING JUDGMENT latest, editor BLACK MIST AND OTHER JAPANESE FUTURES w. Scott Card
John O'Neill I'll follow Barry, then... John O'Neill, Founder and Managing Editor of the SF Site.
RedCyberC Y'all sound eminently qualified to lead us in a session of examining SF as prophetic force...
John O'Neill 21 years for Barry, 6 Years for Keith... I definitely feel like the youngster. I've hardly been READING SF for 21 years...
RedCyberC LOL, John...
BarryHunter Even after all the years, there are still new ideas out there
RedCyberC How long have you been doing your site?
John O'Neill The SF Site's been online for about 18 months. It's had readers for about 12 months. (Readers other than my mother, I mean) :>
RedCyberC It's not the quantity that matters anyway... it's the quality. ;-)
John O'Neill We're currently visited about 150,000 times a month.
RedCyberC Awesome! And at least your mother understands what it is you do...
BarryHunter And I felt good when my site hit 100 in a month
John O'Neill LOL. Yes indeed. Or at least she pretends to.
RedCyberC How many have parents who don't necessarily understand the nature and technology of what they do?
BarryHunter My Dad worked for a newspaper and understood the printing press well
Keith Ferrell We had a quote once in OMNI that argued that "technology" is anything invenetd after your 21st birthday.
John O'Neill Nice quote... gotta write that one down.
Keith Ferrell Came from Alan Kay.
RedCyberC D'oh. SOrry, pronoun with poor definition their. How many have parents who don't understand their children's professions.
Keith Ferrell dad does, Mom doesn'
RedCyberC There, that is.
BarryHunter Both of mine do
John O'Neill Hmmm. I've held a number of jobs. I think it depends a great deal on how much I care to talk about them.
John O'Neill Should we state the question again? I feel I got us a little off track..
RedCyberC Actually, John, you were spot on... How many have parents who don't understand their children's professions? And y'all had good answers.
BarryHunter Sometimes it takes awhile to find the place we need to hit our stride, jobwise.
RedCyberC How many of your jobs wouldn't have existed 50 years ago.. or would have differed radically?
Keith Ferrell Mine (the editing side) would differ in that 50 years ago more care was taken in precise use of language and veracity ... concerns lost in the electronic age.
John O'Neill Most of the prefessions I've been in didn't even _exist_ 50 years ago. Oddly enough, the "highest tech" position I've ever held was in the oldest industry
John O'Neill ... the Oil industry.
BarryHunter I sell electrical supplies of which, a lot have appeared in the last 50 years
Keith Ferrell OH! Oldest industry rather than oldest profession.
John O'Neill Which dates back a looooong time.
RedCyberC LOL Keith...
John O'Neill There's an excellent book on the oil industry called THE PRIZE, which argues that most political and economic change in the last
John O'Neill 120 years has been driven by the pursuit of oil.
John O'Neill Don't know if I agreed completely, but a fascinating read.
Keith Ferrell Dan Yergin -- wonderful writer.
RedCyberC Those in the computer industry might differ. ;-)
BarryHunter Look at the Iran situation, purely oil related
John O'Neill (thanks -- fotgot the author!)
RedCyberC From crTech> Does Science Fiction have more of a role in our society than we would normally ascribe to it?
John O'Neill I believe it does, but not in the way most people thing.
John O'Neill (think)
Keith Ferrell Depends on whether you're talking about real sf or tw/movie sf.
BarryHunter I think so, but it takes longer to get it up and running
John O'Neill Good point.... to keep things simple, I tend to lump them together a little too easily.
BarryHunter Clarke had geo-sync sattelittes in 48, took us til the 60s to get them up
Keith Ferrell That's risky, I think. TV sf is too easy.
RedCyberC Does TV sf reduce itself to too low a common denominator?
John O'Neill True, but isn't it even more risky to disreagrad TV sf?
Keith Ferrell Sure -- advertising.
BarryHunter Picture phones have been predicted for years, but not out yet
John O'Neill I have a picture phone on my desk. I suspect the company will probably fail.
Keith Ferrell If I had a picture phone I'd have to get dressed.
BarryHunter Advertising is the reason for TV, programs have become secondary
RedCyberC My ex-in-laws felt that SF was trash, pulp, useless fiction... are there still a number of folks out there with that rather Luddite view of sf?
John O'Neill There's a pretty big difference between prediting a TECHNOLOGY, and predicting a succesful BUSINESS. I feel SF authors have done a great
BarryHunter Yes, most Baptists
John O'Neill job of the former and a poor job of the latter.
Keith Ferrell Most sf IS trash, pulp. But the best of it is literature of a high order.
John O'Neill Unfortunately, I have to agree with Keith.
RedCyberC John, expand on that... give us an example.
John O'Neill If I'd started reading SF when I was 25, I probably would have given up.
BarryHunter Sturgeons law(?) 90% of everything is crap
Keith Ferrell Sure -- but, of that 10 per cent!
John O'Neill But I started reading SF at 12, when everything was Golden.
Keith Ferrell Oh that 10 per cent
John O'Neill Was it Asimov who said that the Golden Age of SF is 14?
Keith Ferrell Damon knight, I think.
BarryHunter Started reading sf at 10 or 11, 39 years of marvelous feelings
John O'Neill Res, I think Barry's example is a perfect one -- picture phones.
John O'Neill (Red)
Keith Ferrell On the other hand...
John O'Neill The technology for picture phones has been around for almost 30 years, just as writers predicted it would be.
John O'Neill But the public hasn't been willing to pay for them... or even been all that interested.
Keith Ferrell Wright Brother sflew in 1903. In early 1904 HG Wells, best of them all, predicted that powered flight would change forever
BarryHunter If society kept up with sf, there would be no hunger, space travel everyday, an almost perfect society
John O'Neill Good technology prediction, poor business vision.
Keith Ferrell the face of warfare, bringing devastatiion to civilians "behind" the lines.
Keith Ferrell He was laughed at.
RedCyberC What golden age writers wrote about these themes?
BarryHunter Makes you wonder if Wells Time Machine actually worked!
John O'Neill That gives me a good idea for an Award -- The H.G. Wells award for prognostication...
RedCyberC What *other* writers, I should say...
Keith Ferrell Well, Wells was a genius, and a great writer of literature as well as sf.
John O'Neill Amen.
RedCyberC I like it, John...
Keith Ferrell Good idea, John. Will you endow the prize?
BarryHunter Asimovs robots aren't ready yet.
John O'Neill Truth be told, the SF Site has been looking for an award to back...
John O'Neill But all the good ideas were taken.. :>
RedCyberC Do some of the more florid stories actually managed to filter out into into the mass mythology or do they, rather, reflect current attitudes?
BarryHunter Time travel will prolly never be developed
John O'Neill My reviews editor suggested an award for "Best Beach Book" and I almost went for it...
Keith Ferrell The more florid stories -- ALL the stories -- get ripped off by TV/Movies and THAT's waht filters out.
John O'Neill Hmmm. That's probably quite true.
RedCyberC How do we define florid in relation to sf?
John O'Neill But good TV and movies can enhance both an idea and its audience.
Keith Ferrell Good sf tv/movies? Examples?
John O'Neill OK... going out on a limb here, but I thought ALIEN was a great movie.
John O'Neill As well as a good SF story.
Keith Ferrell Sure -- but not an idea in its head.
RedCyberC What do you think are good tv sf shows? Movies? Merlin hasn't even raised his hand, but I know he loves Starship Troopers. ;-)
John O'Neill I'd like to her from anyone who wants to defend STARSHIP TROOPERS...
BarryHunter Many of todays publishers are using public gossip as the basis for books, rather than publishing well written books
John O'Neill Not sure it can be sone, myself...
John O'Neill What do you mean?
BarryHunter ST was entertaining for two hours, well done effects, etc. But reading the book makes you think and it remains with you longer
RedCyberC I LOVED Starship Troopers...Best Sci Fi Movie of the year
John O'Neill Erm. ST disturbed me too much to really be entertained.
RedCyberC That comment was from Merlin, sorry, not personal opinion.
John O'Neill I was hoping for the bugs by the end of the movie.
BarryHunter Thats prolly why Stranger in a Strange Land will never be filmed. Too many people have their own mind set fdrom reading the book over and over.
RedCyberC Hmmm, I'd hate to see what STRANGER would rate, anyway, after Hollywood was done with it.
John O'Neill You think so, Barry? I've heard that the percentage of readers among moviegoers is so small it rarelt influences anything.
RedCyberC What books would you like to see filmed and done well? And with who in leading roles?
BarryHunter True, John, but I still go to see if they did a good job with it.
RedCyberC Merlin would like to see ender's Game...don't know who could star in it though.
BarryHunter They are planning THE BICENNTENNIAL MAN with Robin Williams
Keith Ferrell But Troopers wasn't sf, I think -- it was Big Bugs movies. No logic, not rationalism.
John O'Neill Agree with Keith on that..
BarryHunter Most considered ALIEN as a haunted house film
Keith Ferrell Sure.
Keith Ferrell A Great haunted house film, but no more than that.
Keith Ferrell Effects alone do not sf make.
RedCyberC IMO, most SF has a purely conceptual core... and concepts and ideas don't translate well to the film media.
Keith Ferrell Enjoying sf media because of effects is like enjoying a meal beacuse of the gravy.
John O'Neill The heart of SF is the rational exploration of a new scientific idea, right? And frankly I'm not sure that's a bankable movie theme.
Keith Ferrell I can think of two.
Keith Ferrell 2001 and Contact.
RedCyberC Tell us...
RedCyberC Did they do it well?
Keith Ferrell And Contact fell apart in the last 20 minutes.
BarryHunter Does DEEP IMPACT give any reference to LUCIFERS HAMMER, of which it has to have used
Keith Ferrell IMPACT ripped LUCIFER. Period.
John O'Neill (pondering some way to defend ALIEN...)
Keith Ferrell Ripped Arthur, too.
Keith Ferrell Hammer of God.
John O'Neill (maybe if I go at it from the parasite-as-alien biology thing...)
BarryHunter John, I love ALIEN regardless
RedCyberC Merlin (who reviews films) also felt Gattaca was a GREAT SF movie.!
Keith Ferrell And ALIEN ripped poor AE van Vogt shamelessly.
John O'Neill (or the cats-in-outer-space angle...)
BarryHunter But not well received by the public
Keith Ferrell Haven't seen GATTACA. Is Gore Vidal really in it?
John O'Neill True about van Vogt.
BarryHunter GATTACA touched on cloning which the public is not ready for
RedCyberC Is the public's response any indicator of a film's quality, really?
Keith Ferrell STAR WARS -- not a barain anywhere near it -- ripped Frank herbert, but he sued.
John O'Neill The public's not ready for two-in-one bathroom cleaner. That's what marketing's for. :>
John O'Neill What cloning really needs is a good PR agency.
RedCyberC Barry, at least it was not as heavy handed as Handmaid's Tale, which I also really liked.
BarryHunter Sometimes the public goes for a film for the right reasons.
John O'Neill such as?
Keith Ferrell Just like THE TRUMAN SHOW appears to rip off Fred Pohl.
BarryHunter TITANIC is a terrific love story/date film, but as history it fails
RedCyberC Well, the public goes to the CHAINSAW MASSACRE films because they want to see slice-n-dice... but I don't think that's a right reason. };>
BarryHunter At least MIMIC credited Wollheim
John O'Neill Is it fair to say an entertainment fails at something it wasn't trying to achieve?
RedCyberC Oooh, good question.
Keith Ferrell The public goes to see what the marketing machine wants them to see, mostly.
John O'Neill True. Cynucal, but probably true.
BarryHunter No because each part of the film may appeal to a different part of a person or group
John O'Neill (cynical)
RedCyberC If the public goes to see the stuff the marketing machine wants.. then how do we explain box office bombs?
BarryHunter I'm dying to see THE AVENGERS, but without Sean Connery it would be a bomb
Keith Ferrell Well, you can't fool ALL of the people all of the time.
John O'Neill Red, movies are poorly marketed as often as they well marketed.
BarryHunter Sometimes marketers misread the public pulse
RedCyberC Can we think of any of yesterday's movies that have accurately predicted today?
Keith Ferrell But bear in mind the per centage of the public that thinks the X-Files are real files.
BarryHunter First ads for HORSE WHISPERER focused on love story angle
BarryHunter New ones on the family trajedy
John O'Neill I see only a handful of movies these days... and frankly, the information I use to make my selection is almost always provided by a marketing machine.
BarryHunter X-Files aren't real? Next thing you'll be telling me wrestlings fake!
John O'Neill I think movies in general tend to get a bad rap because they're not books... i.e they're not a seamless vision, and they're commercial enterprisese rather than an artform.
Keith Ferrell Not Aztec Wrestling!
John O'Neill Ooooo ... a movie about Aztec Wrestling...
BarryHunter Been done in Mexico
Keith Ferrell Sure, but -- even commercial artforms don't have to insult their audience, viz. DEEP IMPACT.
RedCyberC Would you define SF readers as mostly a more sophisticated audience than the Nielsen masses?
BarryHunter DEFINITELY
Keith Ferrell If you talk to publishers there are NO sf readers left.
John O'Neill Rea... I'd really like to, but I'm not sure I can.
Keith Ferrell Only Star Trek, Star wars etc. readers.
RedCyberC Can tv or film SF occasionally transcend its media to play to its core audience?
BarryHunter It's getting to the point where there are no publishers left
John O'Neill I think TV/film can transcend its boundaries, like any media.
RedCyberC Are you serious, Keith? Gol, most of my friends read SF when they read something other than technobusiness tomes.
Keith Ferrell But look at the bookstore shelves -- where are the real sf -- as literature -- books?
Keith Ferrell Bob Silverberg? out of print.
BarryHunter Amajority of my review copies lately are Star Wars/Star Trek/fantasy series
RedCyberC B&N up here has as much shelf space devoted to SF/Fantasy as to romance.
BarryHunter Not many stand alone memorable novels
Keith Ferrell Bob Sheckley? Out of print.
Keith Ferrell Bob heinlein? Increasingly out of print.
BarryHunter Tanith Lee can't get printed in US
Keith Ferrell Mayve it's a Bob conspiracy!
Keith Ferrell Tanith is a GREAT example.
BarryHunter Joe Haldeman cant get printed
John O'Neill Barry -- is is really true that there aren't as many standlalone novels, or that they're just lost in the flood of media-realted books?
Keith Ferrell Even better is Brian Aldiss, best of all of them -- and unavailable here.
RedCyberC What does this august panel think of series novels, as opposed to standalone?
BarryHunter Possibly lost in the flood and not sent to reviewers to get the word out
John O'Neill We catalog every SF book released at the SF Site, and I tend to find there's been a lot more original SF and Fantasy than I gave the field credit for.
Keith Ferrell And it's not just sf. Had an editor recently tell me not to use words like "veracity" -- too complex for mass readers.
John O'Neill eep!
John O'Neill what does "veracity" mean again?
BarryHunter Take Burroughs for example, Tarzan is a series of novels, but each is independent of the others
John O'Neill :> :>
RedCyberC Yikes, Keith, I'd be in trouble.
Keith Ferrell Right, John -- but check the print runs on the good stuff. Coupla thousand copies and it doesn't get a chance.
John O'Neill Wish I could rebuke that, Keith. But you're dead right, for the most part.
RedCyberC Let me wrestle things back to the topic... publishing's a pain right now, I agree... but what that's being published today do you consider fairly prophetic?
BarryHunter Most of the review copies I get are of the series formula and don't add anything to the previous
John O'Neill Still, I'm one of those few who believe that Star Trek and etc. brings as many new readers into the field as it suffocates.
Keith Ferrell Barnes and Noble is moving to a top 30% sales per category strategy -- and that means no LeGuin, no Leiber, no ELLISON f' god's sake.
John O'Neill OK. Good question, Red.
John O'Neill Let me look at the stack of review copies for the week...
Keith Ferrell Check your local superstore and see if you can find Isaac's whole Foundation Trilogy. If you can, you;re lucky.
John O'Neill SAMURAI CAT GOES TO HELL probably doesn't count...
RedCyberC LOL John, likely not.
John O'Neill OK -- HEAVEN'S REACH, David Brin.
BarryHunter Circuit of Heaven by Dennis Danvers shows the future with the majority of folks living on the web
John O'Neill Nice book -- liked parts of it quite a bit.
Keith Ferrell Watch what happens with the third volume of David's trilogy.
RedCyberC Cyberpunk.. or just Internet as world... is a hugely popular theme today.
BarryHunter No bodies just electrical impulses and immortal too
Keith Ferrell Or is REACH the third volume?
John O'Neill Havn't read the 3rd one (HEAVEN'S REACh) yet, but I think Brin has a terrific SF idea -- the Uplift concept -- and wrapped it in the kind of adventure novel that can appeal to a large audience
RedCyberC I just read Sheri Tepper's latest paperback... THE FAMILY TREE... rather prophetic in a far-flung sort of way.
John O'Neill How so?
Keith Ferrell But most cyberpunk is just pretend. Look at Delany's STARS IN MY POCKET, the one that got the Web right -- in '84! -- and is out of print!
John O'Neill Did it really get the Web right?
RedCyberC Humans gene-engineering intelligent animals that are the world's future, then destroying themselves with their own technology and lack of environmental consciousness.
BarryHunter Pretty close, been years since I read it
Keith Ferrell I think so -- concurrent streams of info and distraction.
John O'Neill The first interview I did for the SF Site was with Algis Budrys, and my first question was "Did science fiction predict the Web?"
RedCyberC Look at Star Trek's tricorder... and compare it to a US Robotics Palm Pilot.
RedCyberC John, what'd he answer?
BarryHunter SF cloning usually has a positive side, where the real thing will not work due to environmental upbringing
BarryHunter If we were to clone a six year old and expect the clone to grow into the same person, it would not happen
RedCyberC May SF actually affect the direction technology takes?
BarryHunter It nudges it along.
Keith Ferrell Not current sf.
BarryHunter No gigantic leaps.
RedCyberC Yes, but does predicting our future change our future?
BarryHunter It could if taken seriously
BarryHunter You can't change the past, but each action or decision we make today can effect the future
RedCyberC In a few minutes we'll go to an open chat format. Why don't all of you sum up your perspective on the Cassandra phenomenon in the next couple of minutes.
BarryHunter If our computer knowledge is so great , why is there a panic over the Y2K problem?
Keith Ferrell At its best, sf makes us think as hard as any literature. And at its best sf can't get mass-published today.
John O'Neill Sure. I think SF can be prophetic, and it can be VERY GOOD at prophecy. But after thinking about it, I tend to agree with Algis Budrys...
John O'Neill That's not SF's primary function.
BarryHunter SF nudges us to think more and that is what will direct our future
John O'Neill Hear, hear, Barry.
BarryHunter SF's primary function is to entertain and that it does extremely well, most of the time.
BarryHunter Would you consider FRANKENSTEIN to be the first SF novel?
RedCyberC OK, I'm going to open up the chat room to all speakers for the next hour. Please stay and chat -- we'd like to hear everyone's input now!
RedCyberC ::hearing the sound of straitjackets and gags being ripped off throughout the room::
crMerlin ...so the nun said, pass me the bananas
crGand LOL
John O'Neill In some respects I agree with Keith -- SF can make us think as hard as any other literature. at heart, SF is about people -- not necessarily about technology, the future, or any other trappings of setting.
crMerlin OPPS, gag off already?
SlipperyJan Bon jour.
RedCyberC Hi Slippery, welcome! Any significance to the name? ;-)
BarryHunter Bon Jour Slippery
Keith Ferrell But, John, that's NOT true of Star trek et. nauseam.
crMerlin Hi Jan
SlipperyJan LOL...just that I seem to be slip-sliding around today with my internet connection. LOL!
John O'Neill Keith, I think that at's its best, it was true of Star Trek.
Keith Ferrell How so?
RedCyberC The final question I didn't get to... Could SF be considered a kind of social precognition ... or a form of propaganda?
Keith Ferrell Red -- only if sf treats society seriously, no wish fulfillment.
RedCyberC Yes, Jan, you must have quite the sore bum.. those landings looked *hard*.
RedCyberC Keith, expand on that, if you would.. I'm not sure what you mean in concrete terms.
Keith Ferrell I mean -- pace, Star Trek -- no easy answers to social problems, personal problems, etc.
crTech Hi folks!
RedCyberC Hi Tech!
Keith Ferrell In Trek the answer is, "we solved those problems..." And that's not serious.
SlipperyJan Hi Tech.
BarryHunter If someone in one of the government think tanks took SF ideas seriously, it would possibly lead to a better society and life
crMerlin High Tech
RedCyberC Keith, sort of the magical solution concept?
SlipperyJan .:::pardon:::
Keith Ferrell Sure -- magic sells. thinking doesn't'
BarryHunter Science is the same as magic to the uninformed
RedCyberC Hmm, sad commentary on John Q Public.
Keith Ferrell Easy answers ain't literature -- amd neither is entertianment for its own sake.
JanCyberC Didn't Ronald Regan take SF seriously with the ill-fated "Star Wars" technoflop?
RedCyberC Does some SF serve as a warning to us? Which ones do it well?
BarryHunter JQ Public would rather read about which Star is sleeping with who or the latest gossip on Princess Diana
Keith Ferrell Not a question od sf -- Reagan didn't understand SCUENCE.
Keith Ferrell SCIENCE
RedCyberC John, you're having connectivity problems, sorry!
John O'Neill That's terrible! Erm... what is the latesty gossip on Princess Diana?
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crTech I understand some SF authors sold Reagan that deal to bankrupt the USSR?
John O'Neill :>
BarryHunter I take it that you agree to that idea, John?
Keith Ferrell Watch for Diana clonse within the year -- courtesy of the Inquirer/X-Files conspiracy!
JanCyberC <==sees her picture on tabloids from time to time...perhaps she's appearing as the V. Mary does.
Keith Ferrell clones
BarryHunter everyman would want a clone of her for his mistress
BarryHunter all the women would want Richard Gere
JanCyberC Or of oneself, believing in some bizarre way that it would be themselves.
Keith Ferrell Not me -- I'd clone Catherine Deneuve... or Jan.
JanCyberC LOLOL. No I.
crMerlin OUR Jan, Keith?
JanCyberC There are times when one of someone is already too much.
crTech Keith I think there's already multiplies of Jan.
Keith Ferrell Is there another?
crGand Isn't one enough? :)
crTech Otherwise how could she do SO much?
BarryHunter MULTIPLICITY
crMerlin ACTION is imagining 2 Jans
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JanCyberC Terrifying thought.
John O'Neill Back again... Geez, I think it's time to get a new modem.
Keith Ferrell Our Jan has more talentr and ability in -- you pick -- than all of Star Trek in its.
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JanCyberC Gand, did you mention yet how you don't see the Cassandra connection?
crTech Probably just net noise, John.
crGand Who the heck is Cassandra? :)
crTech Historical personage or charactor?
crMerlin Cassandra Peterson is Elvira
John O'Neill Probably should just convince tha cat to sleep someplace other than on top of the modem...
crMerlin :)
JanCyberC She was a female profit who made predictions that were rarely believed.
crAtvar ACTION thwapps crMerlin with a rolled up Starship Troopers movie poster!
BarryHunter Seeress of the Gods, predicted in rhyme, like Nostradamus
Keith Ferrell prophet, jan
crGand ahso.
JanCyberC seer, sybyl, and thanks for the spelling correction Keith.
Keith Ferrell anytime
crTech Did she?
crTech Profit that is?
crTech
crMerlin Was she ever right?
crGand Did the predictions come true?
JanCyberC I'm sure she and her temple did.
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crMerlin bye George
JanCyberC In retrospect, wading through all of the rhyme and double meaning....
crMerlin Hi george
JanCyberC it's said that she did, like Nostradamus.
George Sorry forgot to send to the room.
JanCyberC But she was "cursed" not to be believed.
crMerlin I hate those curses
John O'Neill As I understand the myth, Jan is correct -- she was cursed to see the future, but never be believed.
crTech Sounds a lot like SF when you put it that way.
crMerlin I was cursed to sit in chat rooma every day...Glad that curse did not come true
JanCyberC LOL.
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John O'Neill Yes, but were you believed? :>
crTech Hi Beth!
BG1818 Hello!
BarryHunter Tech, thus todays topic
crGand Hi Beth!
crMerlin BETH!!!
John O'Neill Who's best?
crAtvar BETH!!!!
JanCyberC Hi BG1818/Beth.
BarryHunter Hi Beth
BG1818 What are ya'll discussing?
John O'Neill Yeah, what were we discussing?
BG1818 How
crMerlin Life, The Universe, and Everything, Beth
JanCyberC Welcome to the CASSANDRA AT THE KEYBOARD PANEL DISCUSSION.
BG1818 How's life threating ya'll?
John O'Neill Oh yeah.
JanCyberC John3, Keith and BarryHunter are our panelists today.
crGand and jugs of cheap wine, Merlin :)
BG1818 I have no wine with today.
crMerlin LOL, Gand...Forgot about that!!!
JanCyberC We're just in open discussion now, Beth.
crGand no cheap whining allowed
crMerlin Cheap Wine and Japanese movies
BG1818 So have ya'll been up too anything fun lately?
JanCyberC Who would have predicted there would be a western version of godzilla.
BG1818 I remember that movie. The Western with a dinosaur, that was a Trex?
crMerlin and that it will break $100 million opening weekend, according to MERLIN AT THE KEYBOARD
crGand Well, Cassandra was explained. But next time don't stump my brain :)
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crGand uh oh
BG1818 Is this a new one? Cause isn't the new Godzilla set in New York?
BarryHunter Considering it starts Tuesday at over 7000 screnes, (66%) of market
BG1818 Are ya'll discussing Godzilla or am I confussed?
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crTech Who could have predicted the adds tie ins?
crMerlin Love that Taco Bell commercial "Here Lizard Lizard"..."I think I need a bigger box"
crTech Such as that?
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crGand Hey Red :)
crTech Then again there was that book with all the adds in your face everywhere.
crMerlin Big Red!
crRed Ouch that was a hard punt!
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crTech Hi Tony.
crGand Hi Tony!
crRed OK, I'll try coming back as RedCyberC.
BarryHunter I like the line..."He's Pregnant!"
Tony Hello everyone
............................crRed left ............. :(
crMerlin Hi Tony
...........................RedCyberC joined............. :)
crGand yay
crMerlin RE's RED
crTech Did we reach any agreement on this topic?
crMerlin We agree to disagree
crTech Does SF predict?
crTech
RedCyberC SF predicts incompletely.
JanCyberC Welcome to the CASSANDRA AT THE KEYBOARD PANEL DISCUSSION.
crMerlin IT peddicts unpredictable
RedCyberC Hi Tony, welcome!
crMerlin Tony! Welcome to Cybling!
RedCyberC Keith, shall I remove one of your incarnations, and which one?
crTech And I guess the other half is do we listen?
BarryHunter We decided that it nudges. Know what I maen, Nudge. Nudge.
Keithf The dumber one.
crMerlin LOL
crTech LOL Bary!
RedCyberC LOL ok.
JanCyberC LOL.
............................Keith left ............. :(
crGand Wish it would nudge harder.
crMerlin Punted the wrong one, Red :)
JanCyberC I'm wondering if the Space Opera SF isn't hurting the real life space effort.
crGand Hey! Space Opera is my favorite!
JanCyberC Though things do seem to be popping over in Europe.
BarryHunter Not too much Space Opera written today Jan. Most of it died out in the 70s
JanCyberC If they can ever get that new rocket of theirs to take off without exploding.
JanCyberC Oh..Barry...I mean the Star Wars, Star Trek (pardon) Babs 5...
JanCyberC jump in the space ship and do battle thingys.
crGand Oh wow, the dreaded AOL timer is back!
RedCyberC Tell that to Lois McMaster Bujold, Barry. ;-)
BarryHunter OK, point awarded
JanCyberC Shouldn't we be on Mars or at least the Moon by now?
BG1818 She is doing very well with Space Opera. I just tried to read one of her books and couldn't do it.
crGand We have been on the Moon. We just didn't stay as planned.
BarryHunter Permanent Moon colony should have happened in the 70s
RedCyberC Really, I love her books. And I just got my husband hooked on Miles as well.
crGand As WE planned, I should say :)
George Later folks thanks for the very interesting panel! But I must go!
JanCyberC Later George.
RedCyberC Bye, George, thanks for coming!
crGand Later George
George Especial thanks to the Guests!
BarryHunter Thanks for stopping by
BG1818 To each their own.
crMerlin ACTION waves to George
............................George left ............. :(
crAtvar I'm leaving to! Have a great day...88 here in NYC!
RedCyberC Space travel is a victim of politics IMO.
JanCyberC Later Atvar!
BarryHunter Later At
RedCyberC Bye, Atvar! Enjoy your spring.
............................crAtvar left ............. :(
crGand Later ATvar !
............................John3 left ............. :(
BG1818 Space Travel will aways be a victim of politics.
RedCyberC Speaking of spring, for those of you who have followed the tale of life in Alaska, we had a moose break up the neighborhood basketball game last night.
BarryHunter People in politics too concerned with PoliticalCorrectness and trash than doing something constructive
crGand oh coool.
BG1818 At least as long as it is an excusive mood of travel.
RedCyberC Political correctness.. or personal/constituency profit.
BG1818 Wow a real moose. That must have been interesting. Did it charge?
crMerlin Moose Ball, EH?
JanCyberC Yep.
RedCyberC LOL I'm afraid it did, but not wholeheartedly, my son made it in the front door just a few feet in front of it.
BG1818 Did it run into the door?
JanCyberC Though I'm veg, it sounds like this beast would be better as steaks.
crTech One wonders how the son aranged to have a moose follow him?
RedCyberC He wanted to know if moose stalked their victims, and would hang around waiting for him. No, it wasn't really running hard, it stopped and munched on our trees instead.
BG1818 Here moosey moosey.
RedCyberC (Moose are too stupid to stalk)
crMerlin ."He followed me home...Can I keep him?"
RedCyberC LOLOL
RedCyberC ANYWAY.... space travel, or the lack thereof...
crTech We lost John or did he leave?
RedCyberC Is space travel out of fashion in America?
RedCyberC I'm afraid we lost him, he's had a hard time staying on.
crGand With 95% of the population, Red
BG1818 Fashion? That's an interesting term to use.
RedCyberC I think it's a term descriptive of public opinion...
BG1818 Maybe people are realizing how really boring it would be.
crTech So how do we sell the fact that the space race made our lives better and more interesting?
............................Tony left ............. :(
RedCyberC BG, why would it be boring?
crTech Would we be doing this chat without the space race having happined?
crGand Convince them there's money out there...or diamonds on the moon :)
BG1818 Being in any small space for an extended period of time with little option as to where you can go. Would be boring after awhile.
BarryHunter Prolly not,Tech
RedCyberC When I've come up against the "opposition", Tech.. those that feel the space race drained resources better spent on social programs... I just realize we're not the same species. I terminate the conversation and move on...
crTech BG sounds a lot like my life.
BG1818 Not to me it doesn't.
............................Keithf left ............. :(
BG1818 It would be cool to look out the window and see the universe drift by for awhile but that would get boring. I think.
crTech Do "we" feel it drained or created resources?
RedCyberC BG, it might be boring for the astronaut, but handled correctly, would be eminently thrilling for the public. But the public doesn't care about it anymore.
BarryHunter Red, its hard to hold an intelligent conversation with an unarmed opponent
...........................Tony joined............. :)
RedCyberC I feel it created resources, but the Luddites among us don't. LOL Barry!
RedCyberC WB, Tony!
crTech So it's more like a religion Bary?
crGand re's Tony
BG1818 If we did something daring like go back to the moon, I think the public would take an interest.
Tony Thought it had gone quiet
crTech Can't argue with faith, eh?
BG1818 Look at all the press having the robot go to Mars generated.
crTech BG you think the space shuttle bored the public to disintrest?
BarryHunter We had a lot of good things come out of the space race that impact the world now
RedCyberC Space shuttle flights aren't really anything to write home about anymore.
crTech Where it was supposed to make it seem comanplace?
BarryHunter fiber optics, kevlar,,cellular phones, smaller computers
RedCyberC Barry, the whole computer/technology industry is an outgrowth of the space race, and indirectly, the Internet.
crTech Who is NASA's PR people anyway?
crGand Red - even you sound blaise about it! Imagine saying that 20 years ago!
BG1818 I think we have a short attention spand these days. TV has helped create that.
BarryHunter They don't have a PR firm that is working now
...........................Keith joined............. :)
RedCyberC They probably put engineers into their PR slots.. that's why we don't hear about anything.
crGand re's Keith
crTech Even TV is where it is as a result of the space race.
Keith Ferrell Back again!
BarryHunter Blame MTV for short attention spans
crTech Technically I mean.
RedCyberC Hi again, Keith!
JanCyberC Re's Keith!
crTech Re's Keith.
Keith Ferrell Hey!
BarryHunter REs Keith
JanCyberC Glad you could make it back...wouldn't want you to leave without thanking you properly.
crMerlin .
Keith Ferrell I wired these phones myself -- so, I mean, not bad, eh?
BG1818 Welcome back.
RedCyberC Barry, Merlin, you're the sole survivors... connected the whole time. Care to share your secrets?
JanCyberC LOL....glad they don't let me *near* my phone lines.
crTech RODL
Keith Ferrell Jan, I'm glad they don't let you near mine!
crTech ROFL rather.
RedCyberC RO*D*L?
BarryHunter BeelSouth ISP, gootta trust the phone company for good connections
BG1818 I was wondering about that myself.
RedCyberC Rolling in my drawers laughing?
crTech <=== typos are me.
JanCyberC LOLOLOL.
crTech <=== we be typos.
RedCyberC I am my own ISP, more or less... I'm one of the WAN coordinators for the Internet department of my telcom/ISP.
BG1818 I blame TV and our whole society for the short attention spand.
crTech Whatever.
BG1818 Commericals break up all programs.
JanCyberC So TV, once a SF prediction, has become an effective modifier of society?
crTech So in a sense the space created it's own lack of interest...
crTech Hummmm....
...........................dreamer joined............. :)
crTech space race not just space.
BG1818 It has always been an effective modifier of society.
Tony Hi dreamer
RedCyberC Jan, I think it's more extreme than that.. it's our dream and our nightmare, but not necessarily our reality.
BarryHunter No longer a race
RedCyberC Hi dreamer, welcome!
crMerlin ACTION waves to dreamer
Keith Ferrell TV IS Big Brother.
dreamer HI Tony
JanCyberC Hi dreamer.
dreamer Hey Red
crTech Hi dreamer!
crGand Hi Dreamer!
dreamer :::waving to Merl:::
Keith Ferrell Except we're watching IT!
dreamer High Tech
BarryHunter Yo Dreamer
dreamer Hi Gand
BG1818 True it is no longer a race and that is part of the problem.
JanCyberC LOL.
dreamer Hey Bary
RedCyberC What was that book/show... where you weren't allowed to turn off your TV? Max Headroom?
JanCyberC We need competition? Excitement BG?
crTech So how would we make SPACE interesting again to the masses?
crTech TMTA Jan.
RedCyberC We need an incentive.
crGand Tech - Chippendale astronauts? :)
Keith Ferrell Get Bill Gates to invest in space.
JanCyberC That was part of FARENHEIT 458 too, I think, at least the original movie version.
BG1818 I think the excitment of competition is a good modivator.
crTech Maybe we need an new Cronkite?
Tony Did anyone see the Simpon's episode where Homer complains to NASA about how boring they are?
JanCyberC Okay, Gand, I think you may have something there.
crTech Looking back he seems rather important to the whole thing.
RedCyberC Did Challenger effectively ratchet down the media and industry commitment to the space program?
crGand I didn't Tony. I'm still watching reruns to catch up
JanCyberC They didn't want to broadcast tradgedy you mean, Red?
crTech Actually Red I think intrests grew for a small time.
BG1818 Challenger was the one that blew up?
crGand yes
Tony Yes
BarryHunter Challenger should have help push us fastrer and harder rather than slower
RedCyberC All of a sudden it wasn't a positive subject matter... IMO it never really recovered.
Keith Ferrell NASA effective;y accomplished the ratcheting down -- see Mailer's OF A FIRE ON THE MOON.
BG1818 I think it effected it for a long time. I think we are just now starting to get interested again.
JanCyberC Tony, how are things going over there on the continent? I haven't seen lately with they've got #5 in running condition.
crTech It had drama for a bit was in the news more for the next couple of launches.
RedCyberC I like Steele's TRANQUILITY ALTERNATIVE.. which leads me to prompt Jan for her promo...
crTech But NASA just doesn't have good PR people.
crTech They should play up the risks.
crGand Tell the public we must go back to space...we need room for all the clones that will be here soon.
JanCyberC Danka Red,...
crTech Not down play them.
dreamer .
JanCyberC Yes indeed everyone, please join us next week at this time... 2 pm ET
Keith Ferrell NASA didn't have good Astronauts -- justvwhitebread technos.
JanCyberC for a Q&A with Allen Steele...
crTech To intrest the average blue coller guy. IMHO
JanCyberC Hugo and Nebula award nominee.
JanCyberC The chat will be in association with Analog, Asimov's and the SFSite.
BG1818 I have a theory. That we will not move enmass to space until the population gets so unbearable here that it is the only alternative.
JanCyberC ACTION curtseys
crGand Loved Steele's story
crTech But BG it may be too late then.
RedCyberC Can you really see Roseanne and the Friends crew avidly following the space race?
BarryHunter Beth, if thats the case the Chinese will be first
JanCyberC Do they have much of a program though Barry?
crTech Maybe if they thought they'd see blood, Red.
JanCyberC In comparison to say, the Japanese.
RedCyberC I'll be here, Jan, if I'm not kicked out while a realtor shows my house...
crGand or India, Barry
BG1818 That is how we usually operate isn't it? When it is already too late?
JanCyberC When there aren't enough resources left to do it comfortably.
crTech True.
BarryHunter We don't really know what they have. Remember the CIA found out about Indias nuclear test from Tom Brokaw
BG1818 No the Chinese still have the option of moving here.
JanCyberC True.
crTech And if the technoligy doesn't colapse.
crTech LOL Bary I don't believe that for a minute.
JanCyberC What, you think the CIA knew, they were just keeping mum?
RedCyberC Tony, did the economic consolidation of the EC help or harm the space programs in Europe?
BG1818 We hope the CIA knew.
crTech Or the Clinton group was.
crTech I'm sure the CIA knew.
crTech Heck there were reports 10 or more years ago that they had the ability.
JanCyberC Clinton may have conveniently ignored it as he did the "Genocide Fax" from the UN peace keeping forces.
crTech Might have figured talking to them about it would force them to do it.
RedCyberC He was probably... distracted... Jan,
BarryHunter Clinton's "interest" appears to be elsewhere
crTech Who knows?
dreamer I heard from some reporter or other that if you read India's newspapers you could see it coming...
crGand .
BG1818 I think what has made us notice is the fact that the neigboring countries are up in such arms about it.
crTech Yeah why would a "Big Bang" interest Clinton?
Tony Its made very little difference Red
crGand LOL Tech
crMerlin LOL, tech!
crTech :::thwacks self:::
RedCyberC Put Monica Lewinsky and Dennis Rodman in the next space shuttle.. have Jerry Springer cover the launch.. then we'd get media coverage!
Tony ESA was already in existence and is much wider than just the European Uniojn
JanCyberC LOLOL!
dreamer Red
BarryHunter True, Tony. Do you think the one currencey will help
BG1818 I think Seinfeld would make a better astronaut.
crGand ick
Tony India had its first test in 1974, I think even the CIA should have guessed more were possible
RedCyberC Hm, Tony, that's too bad.
crTech Personaly I say send Rosanne to Pluto.
JanCyberC 'George' has already been there as the "pretzel boy" BG1818
crTech
Tony And the ruling party got elected last year promising to make nukes
BG1818 I like Rosanne.
crTech I did in the early years, Beth.
BG1818 Has he? I haven't paid much attention to the show lately.
............................crGand left ............. :(
RedCyberC Roseanne's ok.. but I can't see her comprehending nor supporting the space program.
JanCyberC So maybe our problem isn't that NASA isn't working and that space isn't exciting, but that the public is being fed claptrap?
Tony No the single currency won't affect that. The work-share on projects is closely watched whatever the currency
crMerlin .
JanCyberC Ooops...stop me before I go into a paranoid rant.
dreamer ..
...........................crGand joined............. :)
crTech Re's Gand!
dreamer re's Gand
RedCyberC I'd hoped the single currency would have enhanced cooperation. Apparently not. I think collaboration is key to the future growth of any effective space program.
crGand argh.
BG1818 Do you go into paranoid rants often?
JanCyberC I'd rather applaud BarryHunter and Keith and say thanks for the *wonderful* panel discussion.
BarryHunter Jan sometimes I think we are all paranoid
dreamer I agree Red
JanCyberC Yes I do, Beth.
crMerlin Hi Gand
RedCyberC Jan's been knows to wear out a soapbox or two...
crGand ::::applause!:::::
JanCyberC LOLOLOL.
RedCyberC known, that is.
Keith Ferrell Uhhhh --- I think the problem is that REAL science, REAL space can't compete with ST Voyager... much less Seinfeld.
BarryHunter Thanks. Been a [pleasure.
Tony LOL the single currency caused the biggest rows in the EU!
crTech Yea yea Panel!!!!
BG1818 We all have our soapboxes.
RedCyberC Kudos to our wonderful panel!
JanCyberC .::applauding Keith and Barry and John2&3:::
RedCyberC Amen to that, BG!
BarryHunter .::bows::.
BG1818 ::::applause!::::
Keith Ferrell Thanks. all, for a great time. Even is Jan *was* here.
dreamer :::pok pok pok:::
crGand :::stomps and whistles:::
JanCyberC LOL, Dreamer.
crMerlin ACTION waves to everybody in the room
RedCyberC You all have done a wonderful job in spite of technological glitches, thanks for your patience and great contributions.
JanCyberC LOL, Keith.
BarryHunter thanks, appreciate that!
JanCyberC 8^P
BG1818 So what happens now?
Keith Ferrell Bye, now!
JanCyberC Later Keith!
BG1818 Bye Bye!
BarryHunter Later Keith
crTech Night Keith THANKS!
crGand Later Keith!
JanCyberC Beth, we keep gabbing until we wear out or Red throws us out...
RedCyberC Bye, Keith, happy handyman!
Tony Bye
JanCyberC whichever comes first.
BG1818 Is Red the host?
RedCyberC I never throw anyone out.. but I do bow out myself in a bout five min... little league time!
JanCyberC Yes Ma'am.
crGand I gotta go check some boards....Later all.
JanCyberC Later Gand!
crTech Night Gand!
RedCyberC Bye, Gand! Thanks for coming.
............................crGand left ............. :(
dreamer bye Gand
crMerlin bye gand
BG1818 Well, I have to go pick up the prints from the Nebulas and Fed Ex them to Locus in a few minutes myself.
BarryHunter Appreciate everyone coming. Catch you next week on chats
