Gardner Dozois at Cybling!

Gardner Dozois January 13, 1999		The September, 1998 Q&A The January 13th, 1999 Q&A Order his books.

The January 13th
Q&A

JanCyberC Folks...Gardner Dozois is with us this evening to chat about his books and editing in general...and many other things. If you have a question for Mr. Dozois, please send it to me via IM.
JanCyberC Gardner...I wanted to ask you about THE GOOD OLD STUFF...
Gardner I can tell you the lottery numbers for tomorrow, for instance...
JanCyberC it's 16 stories from the 40s through the 70s? Why did you decide to do this anthology?
Gardner Well, one reason was that I spend a fair amount of time talking to new writers and readers... and I found, to my dismay, that many of them had never even heard of some of the great writers of the past, let alone read anything by them! So I wanted to do a book with some of the real old stuff in it.
JanCyberC So you've compiled these stories to introduce the best to the new SF fans?
Gardner Another reason for this SPECIFIC book--the same motivation lies behind stuff like my MODERN CLASSICS OF SCIENCE FICTION--was... That people kept saying to me, "They don't write 'em like that anymore!" Talking about fast-paced Adventure Stories with lots of Sense Of Wonder content and action and color And I kept saying, "Yes, they do" So the two books in a way are actually one big book, showing the evolution of the SF Adventure story from the thirties to the present day. Not only do they still "write 'em like that," but if you read both volumes you can see where specific tropes come from in later work. GA
JanCyberC AWDorn would like to know ... How about, is he working on any neat projects right now? GA
Gardner Right now I'm in the middle of working on THE YEAR'S BEST SCIENCE FICTION, SIXTEENTH ANNUAL COLLECTION. That usually takes up the bulk of my working time, other than ASIMOV'S magazine, during the first couple of months of the year. And I just finished an anthology called ARMAGEDDONS for Ace. GA
JanCyberC Thanks Gardner..Saturn asks.. How has the interaction between fanzine writers to professional writers changed over the decades? GA
Gardner If you mean the tradition of fans coming up through the ranks in fandom and eventually becoming professional writers or SF people of some sort, editors, maybe... It still happens, but it doesn't seem to happen as much as it once did. You had a real run of that in the '50s, with people like Harlan Ellison, Terry Carr, Ted White, etc, all coming up through fandom. Then there were people such as Joe and Jack Haldeman and Phyllis Eisenstein in the '70s. What you seem to get these days instead is people who came up through Clarion workshops. GA.
JanCyberC Saturn follows up with... I was wondering about fanzines as training grounds for writers, and if editors would ever send submissions back suggesting they try out fanzines first. Thanks.
Gardner If by fanzine you mean what we usually call "semiprozines," writers do still come up through those. Many skip that stage altogether, though, and just keep at the pro markets until they break into them. I'd always advise writers to aim high--start with the best-paying, most prestigious markets and work your way down. GA
JanCyberC WalterJon asks...ASIMOV'S has had a number of proprietors over the last few years. Is there any reason for optimism concerning the magazine's new publisher, and any plans for expanding the magazine's readership? Those circulation numbers are worrying.
Gardner Well, the magazine's (relatively) new publisher probably has lower expectations than a giant multinational corporation like Bantam Doubleday Dell, our last owners, so that's something. If you look, you'll see that the circulation figures are down for all magazines, and not just SF magazines. A lot of that has to do with upheavals in the '90s to the domestic distribution network... Which makes it harder to get out on the newsstands. Most people can't even FIND sf magazines on the newsstands even when they look for them, let alone BUY them. Since SF magazines have always been subscription-driven, this may not be immediately fatal, but it is worrying. You need issues out on the newsstands to hook new subscribers, or attrition does you in eventually. One way around this may be increased use of the Internet as a way to do an end-run around the newsstand bottleneck. GA
JanCyberC Thanks Gardner.... Rik asks (concerning THE GOOD OLD STUFF) ... I have Road to SF Vol 3, 4 & 5 - would this be similar - Thinking of the prefaces to each story discussing the piece and its place in SF. ga
Gardner Sure, both are what I call retrospective anthologies. The Road to SF is a little less specialized than THE GOOD OLD STUFF, which centers on Adventure Stories. For a more generalized retrospective or overview of the evolution of SF during the last thirty years... Check out my MODERN CLASSICS OF SCIENCE FICTION, MODERN CLASSICS SHORT NOVELS OF SCIENCE FICTION. Another retrospective I've done is MODERN CLASSICS OF FANTASY. GA
JanCyberC Okay...we have three questions here... that dovetail nicely... Starlit asks: How did Gardner get into editing and why? JTS asks: How long have you been with Asimov's SF Magazine? AND Jo asks: Gardner, you are one of the best known and most admired editors in the field. Do you have any hints for us new Zine and E-zine editors to help us to grow as writers and editors?
Gardner Yum, dovetails, my favorite! Phew. Let me try to take that one thing at a time. I got into editing basically because I couldn't write fast enough to make a living as a writer, although I always found the idea of putting together anthologies interesting, even at the beginning of my career. Putting together tables of contents for anthologies is something I do for relaxation, like some people do crossword puzzles. At some point, I found that I was able to sell them, or some of them, anyway. After I got enough of a reputation as a free-lance anthologist, and as a slush-pile reader (my first editorial job, actually) the slide into actual magazine editing didn't seem that unnatural. I've been editing ASIMOV'S SCIENCE FICTION (www.asimovs.com--stop by after the chat and subscribe) since 1985. The only advice I can give new magazine editors... Is treat your audiences with respect, as though they're intelligent adults of all ages. Don't talk down to them. If you despise your audience or think of them as morons, you're doomed. Give them as much value as possible for their money. Trust your own taste. Magazines cannot be edited well by committee. The best ones always reflect ONE person's taste. And finally, if it's a science fiction or fantasy magazine you're editing... Remember that you're in the same business as P.T. Barnum: you show people marvels and wonders for money. No marvels, no wonders, no reason to buy the magazine. Or as Bruce Sterling once said, "No Buck Rogers, no bucks." GA
JanCyberC Gardner... Here's a comment and a question that fit together well.. Angie says: The magazine of the future is probably on a subscription web site. and John3 Says: Do you thinks the Internet can help sell the magazine. GA
Gardner The track record so far with subscription web sites has not been good. OMNI ONLINE went out of business, TOMORROW went out of business. I suspect that this WILL be a significant area in the future, but not until somebody figures out an efficient way to make MONEY doing it. So far, nobody has, although people keep trying. Eventually, someone will figure it out. The question is, how long is "eventually?" As far as Can the Internet help sell the magazine is concerned, there's no doubt about that one at all. The answer is, "Yes." We're already getting subscriptions through our website, particularly foreign subscriptions (Hi, Pierre!) that we never would have gotten otherwise. The question which remains to be seen is can we get ENOUGH subscriptions that way to make up for being blocked out of so many of the traditional display venues, like newsstands. The jury's still out on that one, but I'm hopeful. GA
JanCyberC Warp wants to know: How well does an anthology pay for its editor compared to the percentage an author receives for a novel? ga
Gardner I'm not sure I understand the question. How much does an anthologist earn?
JanCyberC I believe just whether it's more lucrative to do anthologies.
Gardner Not really enough to be worth the work, if you do a good job. To some extent, all anthologies are labors of love. It's certainly more lucrative to write novels, IF you can write a fair number of them, AND sell them, AND they sell well. There's no way an anthologist is going to make the kind of money for an anthology that a top novelist like, say, Walter Jon Williams is going to make for selling a new novel. On the other hand, some people can't write novels, many people can't sell them, and of those who DO sell them, many of the novels they sell don't sell well enough to the reading public to really get them up into the big numbers either. GA
JanCyberC Thanks Gardner...ok...A couple more questions here... WalterJon asks: The SF field now has some of the finest writers in its history, many of whom could be described as Gardner Dozois discoveries. Yet I keep hearing talk that the field is doomed. How do you respond? (and says as well...Top novelist! Wow! Me and James Michener!) ga
Gardner My one-word response can't be said on a family channel. Let's bowdlerize it to "Crap!" I don't at all believe that science fiction is dying...although some of the business aspects ARE changing. Changing and dying are not the same thing, though. In fact, in some ways, THIS is the Golden Age. There are more good writers writing across an enormous spectrum of styles and approaches and subject matter in the field now than ever before. There's more good stuff available to be read every year than most people could remotely have time to read. There are more books being sold than ever before, and more writers are making more money selling them than it was ever possible to do previously in the history of the field. And yet people keep saying that SF is dying. The reason for this is that many of the people who SAY this are mid-list authors who have been squeezed out of the marketplace, and, yes, that is a real problem. But that doesn't mean that the field is dying, just changing--although that will be cold comfort to those people caught on the rough side of change. GA
JanCyberC Thanks Gardner.. AWDorn asks: A few weeks ago, several of us were talking about how dark newer SF seemed to be getting. Do you see this trend continuing?"
Gardner Some is dark, some is not. That's what THE GOOD OLD STUFF and THE GOOD NEW STUFF were about, in fact, in part. Something for that part of the audience who complains that SF has gotten too dark and grim and depressing and has no sense of fun anymore. But as I think I demonstrate in THE GOOD NEW STUFF, there's still plenty of writing like that around, if you look for it. GA
JanCyberC Thanks Gardner...one final comment/question before... we go to open chat... Starlit says: Brian Aldiss did retrospective anthologies: 30s, 40s, 50s...and I'd like to add...why did you choose the 40s through the 70s and then the 70's onward for your two collections?
Gardner Well, I explain this better in the intro for the Good Old Stuff than I can here... But I thought that I saw several natural breaking points in the evolution of the Space Opera or Space Adventure tale. I started after World War II because, one, it makes a natural breaking point--the field was very different before and after the War. And, after the war, we'd already had the so-called Campbell Revolution, and everybody, including the pulps like PLANET STORIES, had to improve the level of writing if they wanted to stay in business... And so even the Adventure Stories tended to be better-written after the war than before it. As far as the '70s as a stopping place... That was a time when several factors had made the Space Adventure kind of passe... Including the rise of the New Wave revolution, with its emphasis on more "relevant" social issues... and the fact that it was becoming obvious that other planets in the solar system were not possible abodes for life, let alone for humanoid creatures that you could have swordfights with or fall in love with. Plus, it was just a more serious time in general. Tense, serious, apocalyptic. So adventure stories went out of fashion for a while, although they never disappeared completely. Then, in the late '70s, new writers like John Varley and George R.R. Martin began to get interested in the idea of writing those kinds of adventure stories again, and interested in the Solar System as a place to set stories. And things evolved from there to today, where there's something of a boom in Space Opera going on again. GA
JanCyberC Okay folks...we're going to open chat now, but a word about dignity and decorum...please let Gardner answer a question before you ask another and remember...I have a cast iron skillet.

The September 23rd
Q&A

This chat is in association with:

JanCyberC Our Guest of Honor this evening is Gardner Dozois. Gardner is brought to us this evening by Asimov's Magazine. Please visit their site at www.asimovs.com before signing off tonight. Thanks!
Gardner Hello, everyone!
JanCyberC Gardner pleased to have you with us this evening!
Gardner Thanks, Jan. Glad to be here! Wherever "here" is in this odd, ghostly, Virtual World! (grin)
JanCyberC I've always enjoyed your magazine...how long have you been editing it and how many Hugos DO you have now?
Gardner I've been editing ASIMOV'S since 1985.
JanCyberC 13 years then.
Gardner And I've won ten Hugos as Year's Best Editor.
JanCyberC Excellent...all for Asimov's?
Gardner Stories from the magazine (SOME of them by virtual lurkers in this very place) have won many more Hugos, of course. Well, the award says "Best Editor." I've always assumed it's mostly for ASIMOV'S, although I do also edit The Year's Best Science Fiction series, and other anthologies.
JanCyberC And we have a question from Baryon: As an editor, who was the easiest to work with ?
Gardner Which author is easiest to work with? The ones who accept my opinions as divinely inspired truth and don't argue with me, of course! (grin) Seriously, some authors ARE easier to work with than others. With some, you go back and forth, and almost end up having a de facto collaboration. With others, it's difficult to get any substantial changes out of them; you more or less either have to buy the story as it stands, or reject it.
JanCyberC Really? I didn't know authors had that much power!
Gardner Howard Waldrop is like that. Asking him for substantial changes seems to throw him into a funk or bewilder him, and the changes could take him years. So I've learned, either buy it or bounce it, pretty much as it is. Depends on how badly they want a sale, I suppose.
JanCyberC Interesting...Thanks Gardner.
JanCyberC We have a question from BAHWOLF here: what are you not seeing enough of at Asimov's? What type of stories? BAHWOLF is Brian Hopkins, btw.
Gardner Some authors consider themselves to be such Big Names that they don't need to make changes; others don't really seem to know HOW to make changes; the story is the way it comes out, and that's that. Brian, we don't see as much hard science as I'd like. Or colorful, out-world adventures with strange aliens and cultures, Jack Vancian kind of stuff.
JanCyberC Hopkins says, for Asimov's he can make Mega Changes! Thanks Brian. Gardner, Ron and Gail Walotsky are out in the audience waving...want me to say hi for them.
Gardner Hi, Ron and Gail!
Gardner The bulk of what we see in the slush and semi-professional and even the professional piles is horror or fantasy or one sort or another. Once you discount that stuff, then 70% or more of what's left is soft, dystopian sociological science fiction set in the near-future. I like a good story of that type, and will continue to buy them, but it would be nice to see some other kind of stuff for a change.
JanCyberC And a question here from Techyo: Gardner would you rather have an easy to work with author or pure talent and is there any typical relationship between the two?
Gardner I'd rather work with a "difficult" author with lots and lots of talent than a pliable mediocrity. But only rarely is this a problem. Most authors with real talent are eager to work with you if they perceive that the work that you want them to do is actually making the story BETTER. If they perceive that the changes are NOT making the story better, then, of course, they dig their heels in--as they should! I'd rather see an author have the guts to stand up for himself and refuse to make a change he thinks diminishes his story rather than give in for the sake of a sale. It's HIS story, after all, and he's going to have to live with it for the rest of his career.
JanCyberC And a question here from Margaret: What topics do you expect to be needing in the next year?
Gardner Margaret, I need good stories. No one finds this answer helpful, but it's the truth! I hate to be more specific than that, because then people who are doing good stories of other sorts won't bother to send them to you. People sometimes think there's a magic formula of some sort for that particular year, "Stories about vampires on generation starships are IN," but it's not that simple. We need good stories of ALL different sorts!
JanCyberC Jim Kelly wants to know: So who have you discovered recently, Mr. Big Time Editor Person?
Gardner I'd like to claim that I discovered YOU, Jim, but you were writing before I came along! (grin) Well, of youngish authors, David Marusek, one of my Clarion students, is doing a lot of good work lately. A brand-new writer named Richard Wadholm has a good story coming up in the January issue. Of somewhat older (but not necessarily moldier!) authors, people like Greg Egan and Paul J. McAuley and Michael Swanwick are producing at the top of their forms these days. I even get something good for REAL old-timers like Jim Kelly every once in awhile, believe it or not! And I'd LIKE to see more from writers such as Kathy Goonan, who I think I see lurking out in the hall.
JanCyberC Techyo Asks: Why is there not enough hard SF do you think?
Gardner Techyo, I guess there's less hard science because hard science is harder to WRITE. You don't need to know much about science or technology to write a soft sociological dystopia set in the near-future.
JanCyberC Thanks Gardner. Margaret asks: Do you ever recommend workshops, etc. for writers who do not know how to make changes?
Gardner The writing workshops I recommend the most are Clarion and Clarion West. I've taught at both of those workshops, and so has Jim Kelly. Kathy Goonan was in one of my classes at Clarion West awhile back. The Clarions really are the best workshops for beginning writers. There are professional workshops, but they won't be as helpful to someone just starting out.
JanCyberC Thanks Gardner. I have a question here from Gail Walotsky: Are you seeing serious writing talent from the new generation or is it more oriented towards the goth/gaming/horror/
Gardner No, there are still talented young writers out there. Some of them are actually YOUNG, too, as opposed to the New Young Writers of the '80s, who were mostly my own age. (grin) There's still plenty of young talent coming along. When it STOPS coming along, I'll be worried. So far, no problem, though.
JanCyberC Hi Sheila...folks this is the Managing Editor Sheila Williams joining Gardner tonight.
Sheila Hi, sorry I'm late.
Gardner Hi, Sheila. Jim Kelly and (I think) Kathy Goonan are lurking.
JanCyberC Gardner, we have a double question here from Margaret: Do you read any of the slush pile? How about on-line workshops?
Gardner I read all of the slush pile. I don't check out online workshops, because I have enough work to do already. If you mean, are online workshops worthwhile, I'm a bit suspicious, although, like any workshop, it depends on how good the people in it are at critiquing.
Sheila Who do you think are the most exciting new talents today?
Gardner I've mentioned some people already, David Marusek, Richard Wadholm, as well as people like Greg Egan, Michael Swanwick, Paul McAuley. Can you think of any others? Oh, yes, another: Tony Daniel is doing some very good work lately. William Barton has been doing some good work lately, as has Ian McDonald. And the new Oct/Nov double issue has extremely good stuff by Bruce Sterling and Ian MacLeod in it, among others.
Sheila I think Bill Barton is an author to watch. Kage Baker is an interesting new one.
Gardner Ah yes, of course, Kage Baker! She's doing some very good stuff! Ah, another new writer doing very good work, as Jim has just reminded me, is L. Timmel Duchamp. Also, Robert Reed, and R. Garcia y Robertson. As Sheila just pointed out to me, there are other even newer writers such as Cory Doctorow and R. Neube who are doing good work too. Robert Nansel just made his second sale, to us. And Andy Duncan, another Clarion grad, is doing first-rate stuff too. Yes, by all means, do visit our site afterward, and, better YET, subscribe!
JanCyberC Speaking of young Authors, Michael Burstein left a question for you on the board, Gardner. Michael Burstein asks: Gardner, what's your schedule when it comes to reading stories? Do you have the office and you a stack every week or so, or do you look through stories only when you go in, or what?
Gardner I go in to the office once a week or so, maybe every two weeks, and I pick up professional submissions to take home to read. The slush and some of the semi-pro stuff I usually read at the office, the day I'm in.
Sheila Gardner, are you writing anything new right now.
Gardner Well, I've been working on and off on a new story for some months now. Maybe I'll get time to finish it one of these days! (grin)
JanCyberC We have a question here from Baryon: Do you think anyone will come close to the ability of Asimov, talent-wise?
Gardner It's hard to compare writers, Baryon. Like comparing oranges and apples, or chocolate and vanilla. All have their areas of strength, and areas of weakness. Does Heinlein have "the ability of Asimov?" Does Le Guin? Their work is so different, it's hard to say.
JanCyberC A question here from RafnDay: How "hard" does the science fiction have to be to appeal to Asimov's? Is it hyperdrive for example, an acceptable "hard" sci fi concept, or should your physics conform to more recognized forms?
Gardner There are certain genre conventions, like hyperdrive or FTL drive in some form, that have always been winked at, even though their physics may be dubious. You could get away with them even in ANALOG, and you certainly can in ASIMOV'S. RafnDay, you might find some of the New Baroque Space Opera stuff, like Peter Hamilton or Paul McAuley. There's also a lot of "Military SF" that almost forms a sub-genre of its own, David Feintuch and David Webber, for instance.
JanCyberC Techyo asks: How much of editing is simple mechanics and how much actually has to do with the concept of the stories?
Gardner Depends entirely on the story, Techyo. Some stories land on my desk and go right into the magazine without hardly a word being altered. Others require much more work. Some require probably more work than they're worth, in terms of cost-effectiveness, but you do it anyway.
JanCyberC And a related question from Atvar: How many stories do you have to read to come up with the annual collection of the Year's Best Science Fiction Collection (This years was GREAT, BTW!)
Gardner Atvar, I read hundreds of stories a year for the Best, probably a thousand or more some years. I make an attempt to read every SF story that comes out in the English language anywhere in the world, and most of the fantasy stories as well. I almost certainly don't SUCCEED in finding them all, but I give it a good try.
JanCyberC Related to the question on the number of manuscripts you must go through is this multiple from Margaret: Do you still get 100 a day in the slush pile? Are you a fast reader? Does Sheila read slush pile? Who else?
Gardner At ASIMOV'S, we get about a thousand manuscripts a month.
Sheila We get about 800 a month.
Gardner I read all the slush myself, at this point, although at various points in the past, I've had a slush reader. I read BAD stories very fast indeed. I've learned over the years to be lightning-fast in deciding which stories are either hopelessly bad or hopelessly far off the mark for us.
Sheila We get the same number we always had, we've never had more than 10,000 subs a year, but that's a lot.
Gardner The GOOD stories, I read no faster than anyone else. In fact, I don't believe you can speed-read fiction and really appreciate it.
Sheila Who are your favorite nonfiction writers?
Gardner So it's a matter mostly of deciding at lightning speed WHICH stories you're going to linger over and read in a more normal manner, at a normal speed. The hardest thing to do when training a slush-pile reader is to train them NOT to take more time than needed in evaluating a manuscript. In 70% or more of the cases, with slush, if you take more than a few seconds to decide it's hopeless, you're not using your time effectively.
JanCyberC A question here from Thomas: Is Kim Stanley Robinson still submitting to Asimov's?
Gardner Alas, Stan is doing hardly any short fiction these days, although I still keep after him. Most of his time goes into writing novels these days, though.
JanCyberC Gardner, Gail Walotsky asks: Since you've been at this for a good long while and can make an educated guess - what direction do you see the writing turning towards?
Gardner Gail, I think you asked in what direction the market was going. Always a hard question to answer, since the market is so big and various, and covers such a wide spectrum of stuff. I do think I see more good hard SF of various sorts being done today, though, and something of a boom in updated Space Opera of a wide-screen, technicolor sort. Both of which trends I find encouraging.
Sheila Do you think SF is more optimistic lately?
Gardner I do think that in some ways it's more optimistic, Sheila. People are investigating viable futures where the human race somehow finds ways to continue, however strange things may get. There are fewer stories that postulate we're all going to go to Hell and/or die the day after tomorrow.
JanCyberC Thanks so much Gardner... ready for open chat now?
Gardner [bracing himself manfully]
JanCyberC LOL!

JanCyberC Folks, we're going to open chat now. Thanks for being so patient. We'd like to ask that you not inundate Gardner with a lot of questions at the same time...please let him answer one before you ask another!
Dayahla Are the manuscripts that are received from unknown authors treated differently than those from established authors?
GailW ACTION stretching legs... Thanks Gardner, and Hello!
Gardner [whistles at Gail's unfurling legs...]
Margaret How do you feel about gothic sf?
GailW LOL! Hi ya, Gardner! How's it kicking?
Techyo :::waves at Gardner and room:::
Gardner Manuscripts from pros and amateurs are treated the same physically, they're just sorted into different piles. They sit on the same bookshelf side by side with each other, though, until they're read.
GailW Is Susan around?
Gardner She's nearby, Gail. I'll say hi for you.
GailW Please do!
BAHWOLF What determines whether something goes in the pro file, Gardner?
jimkelly Hi, Susan. If you sit down and type for Gardner, who'll know?
Dayahla Gardner, we asked some questions last time, and were told to come back this week. First, cover letters: How much of a synopsis do you find appropriate?
Gardner Well, professional credentials, Bahwolf. Obviously, Ursula Le Guin or the Famous and Mighty Jim Kelly are going to go in the professional pile.
BAHWOLF Understandable. Active SFWA membership? Should I write it in big bold letters on the envelope or something? (chuckles).
GailW bribes might work...(grin)
Gardner I have a pretty generous definition of what goes in the semi-pro pile, so any sort of credentials at all will keep you out of the slush pile.
Margaret Even e-zines?
GailW Where will you be appearing next, Gardner?
Gardner SFWA membership alone won't get you on the pro pile if I haven't heard of you or am not familiar with your work, but it WILL keep you out of the slush pile, so yes, you should mention that in your cover letter.
BAHWOLF I think I quit sending you cover letters...
Margaret How about associate membership?
BAHWOLF After so many rejections, ya know... LOL
JanCyberC Margaret, what were you saying about e-zines?
Gardner Not that keeping you out of the slush pile really buys you much, since I read everything myself anyway.
BAHWOLF That's good to know.
Gardner But it may buy you some extra minutes of attention paid to your manuscript.
BAHWOLF Might determine whether you read the first page or the first two pages, though, eh?
Margaret Does pub. in e-zine get you semi status?
Techyo (grin)
Gardner For whoever asked, I like cover letters myself, although some editors don't.
JanCyberC Interesting question Margaret.
BAHWOLF Like I said, I tend to quit writing them after awhile. I figure the editor has heard it before...
Gardner Gives you the information on whether the writer has any sort of professional credentials or not, and may even give you a feel for the author's personality or level of talent.
JanCyberC Gardner, what is Asimov's stand on e-zines...would a writer published there be considered semi-pro?
BAHWOLF Okay. Good info to know. Thanks.
Dayahla Gardner, do you prefer just an intro to the writer, or a synopsis of the story? Perhaps a few juicy tidbits?
GailW How hard is it for new talent to be published now?
Gardner Margaret, if it's publication in an e-zine I've heard of, it probably will, same as publication in a print semi-pro publication. If not, then probably not.
RIKnROLL Gardner - What is an outright NO-NO in a cover letter?
Margaret So, list it and take your chances, right?
BAHWOLF I think he's saying it can't hurt, Margaret.
Gardner A good cover letter is mostly a vehicle for telling me what credentials you have, maybe a little bit about yourself as a person. It shouldn't be long.
Dayahla Rik, that would be a cover letter that starts "Hey, Gardner....remember me from Cybling?"
JanCyberC LOL.
GailW (grin)
BAHWOLF LOL, Day
jimkelly Whew! So I know it's only September, but any suggestions for major 1998 stories we should have read?
Techyo "I know Techyo" probably wouldn't help.
Margaret Now that sounds like a winner!
catalline JanCyber, did you say "open to questions", or "lock and load"??
Dayahla Although, Gardner, watch closely for that same line in a forthcoming submission...lol.
RIKnROLL LOL Day - Cover letter: "Gardner, remember me. I'm the one you said who are you to at Cybling"(grin)
Dayahla LOL, Tech
Gardner If you CAN be witty and clever and so forth, do so -- although I should warn you that a lot more people THINK that they can be witty and clever than actually CAN be, and that can tell you something too, although maybe something the author wouldn't want you to know.
BAHWOLF ACTION knows he can't be witty and clever...
Gardner Saying you were in this chat would at least be SOMETHING to make your story different from all the hundreds of others. It could work.
Margaret [sigh] the only time people think I'm witty and clever is when I'm serious.
Dayahla ACTION scribbles note to add "Gardner, remember Cybling..." on next submission...
Gardner For my money, what your letter should NOT have is a synopsis of the story.
JanCyberC Interesting. Thanks Gardner.
Gardner They almost always sound dumb, no matter how good the story is. "Well, there's this guy with one leg, see, and he chases this WHALE around all over the place..."
RIKnROLL That is what I was looking for, Gardner - I heard that once before and was looking for verification
Margaret I'd rather have you read my story!
JanCyberC LOLOL.
RIKnROLL LOL
Gardner I'd rather READ it, Margaret, than have everything given away in a synopsis.
Dayahla I read that the first few paragraphs have to grab, or the manuscript is trashed. Is there truth to that? How far do you read?
JanCyberC You mean a hook, Day?
Dayahla Yep...
Gardner The brutal truth is, you have about five seconds to grab the interest of the slush reader. A really passive opening probably won't do that.
RIKnROLL Gardner - Without naming names tell us a HORROR story working as a publisher
Dayahla Good deal, thanks...
Gardner That doesn't mean you have to open with a laser battle or a car chase -- in fact, that may be even LESS interesting.
Margaret and what hooks you may leave someone else cold.
Gardner My advice usually is, start with the PEOPLE. If you can immediately interest us in a character, and show that character facing an interesting problem, then we'll be interested in reading more to see what happens.
JanCyberC And folks...if you don't already have a subscription to Asimov's...get over to their site at www.asimovs.com after the chat and subscribe.
Dayahla Good Point!
Gardner That's a formula as old as people sitting around the campfire telling stories during the Ice Age. And it still works.
Baryon "It was Midnight in the Oval Office" probably won't get out of the slush pile
crGand ---long time subscriber. Want coffee cup. Remember me? (grin)
Techyo ROFL
RIKnROLL Jan I move too much to keep address changes going - I have to get them at rack prices:(
Dayahla Is it true that Editors cringe at anything printed on bubblejet printers? Are they really that specific?
Gardner We're thinking of offering stuff like that as subscription premiums, actually, crGand. Would a coffee mug be what you want? Or a T-shirt? Or a tote bag?
crGand Mug! (grin) Would use every day.
RIKnROLL --ball cap (grin)
Margaret tote bag (does this include renewals?)
crGand I'm currently paid up until 2002, I think :)
Gardner Editors cringe at anything that's hard to read. Our eyes are bad enough as it is. As crisp and dark and legible as possible, is what you want your text to be. I thought you said you wanted a hug there for a second, crGand. (grin)
crGand I'll take that too :)
JanCyberC I wouldn't mind a Rolls, but a mug would do. Actually, just knowing what it is you *Are* publishing is enough reason for me to subscribe.
Margaret How about proportional fonts?
Baryon Gand likes hugs too Gardner
RIKnROLL Sounds like me, Gardner - I hate squinting
Gardner I don't even know what they are, Margaret, but I'm against 'em! (grin)
RIKnROLL lol
Dayahla Jan, would that be a Rolls Royce, or cinnamon rolls? :::grins:::
Gardner We did give out tote bags a few years back, and they were popular.
JanCyberC LOL! Either Day.
Margaret just Courier mono-space?
RIKnROLL Jan - If you peddle a million subscriptions you may just win one:)
Techyo I'm guessing I shouldn't define proportional fonts right now, right?
Gardner THAT'S not the kind of roll I had in mind for Jan...[leers evily]
JanCyberC 12 point font?
Dayahla lol
JanCyberC I don't know whether I should blush here or not.
crGand ACTION thwaps Techyo. NO.
Gardner Oh, go ahead, Jan!
BAHWOLF ACTION is liking Gardner more and more...
JanCyberC ACTION contemplates her reputation, then winks at Gard.
Dayahla Jan still blushes??????
crGand LOL Gardner
Margaret MY eyes prefer 14 point Times.
RIKnROLL I like big FAT text fonts:)
JanCyberC You are right there Day, Gardner...preference in font size? 12? 14?
Gardner If you were asking me before what style of roll I'd prefer, Jan, I'll leave that up to you. (grin)
Margaret To me easy on the eyes means large enough to read and 12 pt courier is a bit small.
Dayahla LOL, Gardner. I had just asked her to clarify her rather risqu� sounding question...
JanCyberC LOLOL Gardner.
Techyo Easy on the eyes?
Gardner I'm sure anything you pick, Jan, I'll find VERY NICE.
Techyo I'M TRYING TO BE GOOD! here
JanCyberC Actually I wanted to know if you like 12 point or 14 point type...what's *too* big for you.
Dayahla lol
BAHWOLF ACTION is not touching that one.
Gardner What's too big for YOU? [leer] (In any case, not to worry...(grin))
JanCyberC LOLOL.
Gardner You can use any font you'd like, as long as it's legible, but it's not going to come out that way in the magazine anyway.
Margaret Just want to lure you into reading ten seconds instead of five.
Techyo We could put you on the spot and ask what's your favorite discovery while editing.
JanCyberC Good question Techyo.
John3 That's a good questions, Techyo. What about it Gardner?
Gardner In general, fancy fonts don't impress me, and I may even take them as the mark of the amateur. Whatever you do, don't use a script font. VERY hard to read, and it will not incline me to like your story.
Dayahla ACTION makes note not to use Script Fonts on manuscript...
Gardner Stories that have been right-justified are also annoying, and for some reason, very hard to read.
BAHWOLF Longhand is probably out, too. (grin)
Baryon Garamond 14 or 16 is good one to use Day
Dayahla Shorthand? Tee...hee
Techyo Audio?
JanCyberC So big fonts, dark impression, ragged right.
Margaret never right justify!
Gardner Yeah, Bahwolf. We've gotten stories written in crayon, too. They're out as well.
Techyo Duh
Techyo <=== just got the right joke.
BAHWOLF So that's why you didn't take that one from me...
RIKnROLL LOL Gardner - Thanks I've done that before:)
Dayahla Gardner...I am crushed, you didn't like my story in aqua blue?
Gardner But your crayon drawings of stick-figures in bubbleheaded space helmets were VERY nice, Bahwolf!
BAHWOLF LOL
JanCyberC BTW, Gardner, Burstein also left a note on the board for you saying: How does it feel being on the other side of the chat for a change? :-)
RIKnROLL LOL
Gardner Nothing new, Jan. I've done chat interviews before. In fact, in thirty plus years in the business, I've done just about every kind of interview there is. (grin)
John3 Gardner, any comments/feedback on the website? Always looking for feedback (this is John from the SF Site).
Margaret How do you get word count?
Gardner Hi, John!
Margaret Do you accept ours or do your own?
Gardner I hear, via Dave Trusdale, that you have big plans for SF Site. Any previews you'd like to give folks?
Dayahla I read somewhere that it is a definite no-no to date your work in any way. Is this true?
John3 I can give a few. Ed Ferman confirmed he'll be moving to the SF Site in October.
JanCyberC Ferman?
John3 We also have the new SF Chronicle and Tangent sites ready to launch.
BAHWOLF Of F&SF fame, Jan.
Gardner We'll do our own, even if you have a count on the manuscript. (And almost all authors undercount their stories, by the way).
JanCyberC Cool...thanks.
Baryon Fantasy & Science Fiction
JanCyberC Sounds great John!
Gardner Dayahla, that's true. Don't date it, don't get it copyrighted before you send it in.
John3 Actually, since this is a small group, I can bounce a few ideas off you folks.
RIKnROLL Go ahead John
Gardner You're doing some kind of special "short fiction/magazine" page, right?
JanCyberC John, this is the last place you should be if you *DON'T* want opinions, lol!
John3 Yes. We have a mock-up of a new website focused exclusively at our hosted magazines (over a dozen now).
Margaret We're listening.
John3 The URL is www.sfsite.com/fiction/fichome.htm
Gardner Aren't you afraid that will limit your attendance? ONLY people interested in short fiction will go in, whereas now, people interested in other areas might drift by?
John3 We're not changing the focus at the SF Site -- that will certainly keep going. But much of the spotlight on short fiction has faded from SF Site. We'd like to fire it up again with a new
Gardner Is the ASIMOV's URL going to change? We'll have to tell quite a few people about that, if so.
John3 site devoted exclusively to the magazines. No, all the URLs will stay exactly the same.
Dayahla A site has to offer something really special to gain my attention anymore, to be honest.
Gardner Those of you interesting in checking out SF SITE after the chat can link to there through the ASIMOV'S site, after you get through subscribing to the magazine! (grin)
John3 The new site will be called FictionHome.com (or possibly FarStation.com) and merely be a place for short fiction reviews and news.
JanCyberC Speaking of Shorts...Gardner how short is TOO short a story for Asimov's.
John3 (thanks for the plug, Gardner!) good question, Jan.
Gardner Always glad to see more short fiction reviews. There aren't very many of them around.
Techyo ROFL I like a person with strong focus!
Gardner There probably ISN'T such a thing as "too short" in that sense, Jan. I should add, though, that relatively few short-short pieces are any good. It's a hard form to write.
Margaret just like legs should be long enough to reach the ground, stories should be long enough to tell the story
John3 Gardner, ASF once had a rep for quality short-short stuff ('course, I'm thinking of the Feghoot stuff...)
Gardner I agree, Margaret.
Techyo Or to paint the impression.
Margaret I like stories better than impressions.
Gardner A good story of ANY length should take exactly as long as is needed to tell the story effectively, then stop.
Techyo I do too Margaret but some of those short things between the stories are interesting.
RIKnROLL LOL Jan - Are you pondering what I'm Pondering? I think so but if we give peas a chance wont the lima beans be jealous, JAN? ;)
Gardner I always hated Feghoots, John. (grin) ASIMOV'S used to be infested with them, but I got rid of them when I took over.
JanCyberC So there's definite room for Short-Shorts at Asimov, but that have to be well written.
Techyo In that such a short thing can make you think so much sometimes.
Margaret But, knowing when to stop is almost harder than knowing how to start.
John3 Hated Feghoots?? Oh, another treasured illusion, shot to hell (g)
Dayahla Gardner, I was wondering if you run into folks either padding stories with too many words, in an effort to make more $$? Also, what about those that play with their thesaurus too much?
Techyo What's a Feghoot?
RIKnROLL Gardner - Do you think the Newsprint gives the illusion of poor quality?
Gardner I won't rule out a story because of the length. I know from experience, though, that the odds are much against someone actually writing a good short-short than at any other length.
John3 "Through Time and Space With Ferdiand Feghoot" Short story series by... darn, help me out here Gardner...
Margaret Is 3000 about average length?
Techyo Oh I hate series.
Gardner Playing with your thesaurus too much makes words grow on your palms...
Baryon Reginald Bretnor
Dayahla ROFL, Gardner!!
John3 Thanks, Baryon.
Baryon Loved Feghoots
Techyo That was why I stopped reading the shorts mags back in the 70s and rediscovered them in the 80s.
Gardner Well, John, by the time I took over, the field had seen a lot of feghoots, and feghoot clones.
Baryon "Stupid Rabbi, kicks are for Trids"
Margaret Feghoots were gimmick.
RIKnROLL LOLOL Barry!
Dayahla lol, Barry...
Gardner "A stitch in time saves Stein," and so forth. I also don't like pun stories, a related form.
John3 Actually, Margaret, I agree Feghoots were a gimmick. But I was 12 when I started reading IASFM, and more than
JanCyberC So Shaggy dogs and extended puns aren't what you'd consider a short story.
Techyo :::Gasps::: what no Piers?
John3 anything else they gave the magazine a sense of continuity for me.
RIKnROLL No Spider Either?
Gardner I actually LIKE funny stories, but my definition of "funny" may not be the same as other's.
Margaret I enjoy gimmicks first time, maybe second, but not when they go on and on and on and ...
John3 Ok, what do you consider a good funny story?
Gardner I did do an anthology of funny stories from my ASIMOV'S, called SF LITE (title not my fault!).
JanCyberC Thanks John.
John3 (or a good modern funny author?)
Techyo LOL Gardner I can relate.
JanCyberC Right, so we can read that work to see what you're looking for.
Techyo Had to explain that Heinlein was funny the other day.
Margaret Charlotte MacLeod.
Gardner Also, by the time I took over, ASIMOV'S had already been changed radically from the George Scither's ASIMOV'S by Shawna McCarthy, and she was changing it in the direction I wanted to go in; I didn't want to go back to Scither's ASIMOV'S, which had been largely not as much to my taste. Connie Willis writes a lot of successful funny stories; Esther Friesner does too.
RIKnROLL Gardner - Do you think SF is dying? A number of well known authors are "complaining" about loss of Markets, Problems with publication
Margaret Shawna's rejections were nice.
Gardner Howard Waldrop, Terry Bisson.
Techyo So direct humor or more in the line of that twist that takes you by surprise? Or do I assume too much?
John3 Gardner, I'd love to hear a serious answer to RIKnROLL's question.
Gardner Ever since I started working in the field, Riknroll, way back in the early '60s, somebody has been saying gloomily that SF was dying. I don't believe it for a second.
Techyo Good answer.
Gardner Some people almost seem to have a vested interest, emotionally, in the idea that the field is dying, but instead, it seems to me, it's more vigorous than it ever was.
Techyo It can't die. It'd destroy us.
Baryon I think the SF is changing and evolving, not dying----but I do miss pure Space Opera
John3 Good answer. What about the magazines? Are the short fiction markets in trouble?
JanCyberC Thanks! But aren't novelists hitting a really rough row right now with all the publishing house mergers?
Techyo LOL I tend to wonder if the good old days were ever as good as remembered. Or just familiar.
John3 (Baryon -- you should check out Gardner's upcoming GOOD NEW STUFF/OLD STUFF anthologies. WONDERFUL stuff.)
Gardner The same kind of people say very gloomily that nothing good is being written anymore, that SF isn't as good as it used to be in the Old Days, but the same people admit that they DON'T READ any current SF!
Baryon Who is the Publisher John?
Techyo LOL Gardner sounds like they need them to become classics first.
John3 (St., Martin's press. 2 volumes, coming in November and January, I believe)
Gardner I've been having this argument endlessly on Genie, and every single person who said that today's SF isn't as good as it used to be admitted, under close questioning, that they read little or no current SF, and hadn't done so for years.
JanCyberC Folks, we have about 3 minutes before I undo the duct tape that has Gardner attached to the hot seat... if there are any other questions...ask now.
RIKnROLL Gardner in your own Magazine - Are packed away - Sept issue article by S_____ - The "New" "Trop Hardi" SF is being printed by independent presses
Margaret Lots of people criticize what they don't read. Easier than risking being confused with facts.
Baryon I do a review zine, will try to get them
Gardner THE GOOD OLD STUFF is a December release, I think. THE GOOD NEW STUFF is, I think, January.
Techyo Good point, Margaret!
Margaret Fantastic meeting you Gardner.
John3 Check them out, folks. Wonderful salute to Space Opera.
Techyo Cool I will thanks for the heads up, John.
Margaret I'll keep loving Asimov's no matter how many rejection slips you send me.
Gardner John, you'll be interested to know that there's a killer review of THE GOOD OLD STUFF coming up in ASIMOV'S. Norman doesn't feel that the old stuff is worth reading, it's all crap.
John3 LOL, Gardner. I'm trying to get reviews of both at the SF Site as well.
Gardner Interestingly, though people who don't read it anymore think SF is dying, I've noticed that everyone who reads a LOT of current SF thinks that there's more good stuff than ever.
Margaret Agree! Agree!
John3 I agree. It just gives me the creeps to see the subscriptions on the magazines decline...
Techyo There's a lot out there. Certainly easier to find than when I was a kid.
RIKnROLL I've been surprised by finding Robert Sawyer - Really didn't expect it to be as good as it was. My mother heard about him in Canada on an interview show:)
Gardner The reason magazine subscriptions are declining is a technical one, having to do with upheavals in the way magazines are distributed and sold. It would be the same no matter what kind of stuff was being published inside.
Margaret Not here. I keep buying at local newsstand cause if they don't sell so many copies they'll stop carrying
RIKnROLL Gardner I have a Marketing scheme for you;)
JanCyberC So...the problems are similar to the ones faced during WWII? Paper costs, distribution changes.
Techyo I kind of miss seeing Asimov and Analog at the grocery store.
John3 Glad to hear that interpretation, Gardner.
Gardner That doesn't necessarily mean that the SF magazines won't die. But if they do, it won't be because the quality of the product declined, or even because the taste of the audience changed. I was a little disappointed not to see a review of the BEST there, especially as you had reviewed the Datlow/Windling BEST.
RIKnROLL look at SW, ST and B5 etc.
di Mr. Dozois is there a balance you try to achieve with the magazine?
Gardner I'm going to go in a minute, Di, but, yes -- I try to get a balance of different types and different styles of stories in every issue.
John3 A review of the 1996 YEAR'S BEST was the very first review we ever did at the SF Site...
Gardner I have very eclectic tastes myself, and I'd like to think that there'll be SOMETHING in every issue to appeal to almost every reader.
John3 What's the marketing scheme, RIKnROLL?
Gardner (Of course, the downside of that is that there'll be something in every issue that WON'T appeal to every reader.)
RIKnROLL John - I want to see cross marketing with Asimov's and SFChannel. Doing 2 SF stars and 2 SF writers in a Politically incorrect type debate format
Gardner A deal cross-marketing ASIMOV'S and the SCI-FI CHANNEL is already in progress.
di I notice that you have character driven stories, is this your preference.
RIKnROLL Introducing writers via TV/ Movie stars. Like we do here - Topical chat
Gardner Largely, yes, Di, although I try to have many different types of good story in the magazine.
Margaret I read the ones I like and save the magazines in case I might try the others sometime
di I enjoy the character driven stories, I have change from the science driven. Thanks
Margaret How the character copes with the science is my favorite.
Gardner In general, I feel that my job as a magazine editor is the same as P.T. Barnum's. I show people marvels and wonders for money.
RIKnROLL me too di - I also prefer straight forward story telling - I don't want to work around a writer's "technique"
di Exactly Margaret, thanks
Gardner No marvels and wonders, the customer isn't satisfied, no matter how character-driven it is. That's the bottom line.
John3 Hmmm... nice analogy, Gardner! Does the criticism that ASF doesn't always publish "true SF " ever bother you ,, Gardner?
Gardner Yes, John, it does -- especially as I don't feel it's true. I think we publish as much or more "true SF" than anyone.
John3 I agree. But don't let it get you down!
Gardner In fact, we even publish a great deal of "hard SF," some of it, in my opinion, as hard or even harder than anything you'll see in ANALOG.
di How do you feel about humour?
RIKnROLL With a name like ASIMOV Of Course! ;)
John3 No argument from me. Did you ever get a chance to read the ASF retrospective I did a few months back?
Gardner But it's like Hartwell's Best--he SAYS everything in his book is "true SF," unlike MINE, but if you actually LOOK, you'll see that's not true! But reviewers go along with that party line, because he SAYS that it is! (grin) Yes, John, I enjoyed it.
JanCyberC And I expect all of you to follow Gardner out and run over to the Asimov's site at www.ASIMOVS.com and then drop by the SFSite at www.SFSITE.com
John3 You'd be surprised how much marketing literature sways reviewers...
Gardner Well, guys, I've got to move along, I'm afraid.
JanCyberC Gardner, thanks again!
RIKnROLL :::applause!!!::::
JanCyberC ACTION applauds Gardner thunderously.
John3 (thump, thump! Hear Hear!
Techyo Gardner well done! THANKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JanCyberC And Gardner too.
Margaret Hip, hip, hooray!
di Thank you, and again I am sorry I was late
Margaret Thanks.
John3 Yes, many thanks Gardner. Enjoyed it. I'm sorry I was late too.
Teri Thanks Gardner
RIKnROLL Yeah - Nice to see you again
JanCyberC ACTION snips duct tape from Gardner's arms.
di lol JanCyberC
Gardner But you read Bradbury's "Mr. Pale," and tell me how that can be justified as "true SF." I'm even dubious about Gibson's story! (grin)
RIKnROLL Well I'm keeping you I should move on - Gardner a pleasure as always, SquidRIK, RumRIK, RIKnROLL etc. ;)
John3 Now Gardner... no stooping to their level... (grin)
JanCyberC Gardner, it's been a great pleasure having you join us this evening. Thank you so much.
Techyo Gardner Thanks again for that wonderful chat! Next time! (grin)
Gardner Well, everyone, I hope you WILL go over to the ASIMOV'S site after the chat and look around. And, of course, we'd like it if you'd subscribe while you're there, too! Only takes a few clicks of the keyboard! (grin) Goodnight, everyone!

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